Friday, September 22. 2006
The Problem Of Accessibility
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I’m a dork. I never intended to disable comments — must have just fat-fingered some setting late last night when posting this. Apologies to anyone who got the "talk to the hand" message earlier.
Au contraire, mon frere…I have indeed sat in (and taught) workshops with beginngers. As I’m preparing to guest edit an online zine, I’ve received some submissions thare are amateurish to the point of illiteracy. Of course, that’s my opinion.
As I’ve said on my blog (and others) as this discussion continues, lately I’ve been grading poetry on whether is moves me or not, rather than good or bad. Does it stick with me, elicit a response, make me want to read it again? However, a number of fellow poets have said this is basically the same thing as "good" or "bad," although I disagree. I think saying the poem moved me is a more honest expression of personal taste. I really don’t think we’ve created a yardstick or the language to really classify good and bad poetry.
As for accessible poetry, I blame Jorie Graham and her ilk for making "accessible" a dirty word. I’d rather read Collins or Kooser any day than some of hre new mumbo jumbo. Kooser, in particular, is a brilliant poet. His work moves me to genuflecting and when I saw him here in Atlanta, one of his poems made me cry.
As I’ve said on my blog (and others) as this discussion continues, lately I’ve been grading poetry on whether is moves me or not, rather than good or bad. Does it stick with me, elicit a response, make me want to read it again? However, a number of fellow poets have said this is basically the same thing as "good" or "bad," although I disagree. I think saying the poem moved me is a more honest expression of personal taste. I really don’t think we’ve created a yardstick or the language to really classify good and bad poetry.
As for accessible poetry, I blame Jorie Graham and her ilk for making "accessible" a dirty word. I’d rather read Collins or Kooser any day than some of hre new mumbo jumbo. Kooser, in particular, is a brilliant poet. His work moves me to genuflecting and when I saw him here in Atlanta, one of his poems made me cry.
Thanks, Collin. I recently made my way through Shadows_And_Delights and thoroughly enjoyed it. I’ve also enjoyed many of the poems in Collins’ The_Art_Of_Drowning. I agree that the most honest and accurate things we can say about a poem must necessarily stem from our experience of the poem, and how it affected us. That certainly seems to engender the most effective approach to workshops. But I think we can go beyond this — if not as artists, as literary critics — to extrapolate from our own experience into what the poem might do generally to a reader, and why. It’s risky territory — as far too many critics seem to want to write poems about the poems, rather than falling back on what is said, and what effect it has, and why. Still, I think we can gauge the impact of a poem on its reader in a relatively objective way. In fact, even without detailed critical analysis, we very often know intuitively if a poem works or does not work. The highest praise I think we can ever expect for a poem is to read it once, and have the listener say something as prosaic as, "Wow. That was good."
A thoughtful rebuttal from Michael Wells is here:
http://stickpoetsuperhero.blogspot.com/2006/09/problem-of-accessibility.html
http://stickpoetsuperhero.blogspot.com/2006/09/problem-of-accessibility.html
Every twelve-year old cannot write prose. Have you had any contact with college students recently? You never really define what you mean by "accessible" or "communicate" or any of the main terms you use here.
I wasn’t sure whether your remarks about meter being passé were sarcastic or in your own voice. Also, I didn’t know whether you were talking about "modern" poetry or "contemporary" poetry, not at all the same thing. Every good poet I know certainly knows meter backwards and forwards, even if they don’t use it. At the very least they are familiar with the poetic tradition in the language going back to Chaucer.
Poetry is the most traditional art form, that is, the art form most steeped in its own tradition. This is certainly true of "modern poetry" if you think of Pound, for example.
I wasn’t sure whether your remarks about meter being passé were sarcastic or in your own voice. Also, I didn’t know whether you were talking about "modern" poetry or "contemporary" poetry, not at all the same thing. Every good poet I know certainly knows meter backwards and forwards, even if they don’t use it. At the very least they are familiar with the poetic tradition in the language going back to Chaucer.
Poetry is the most traditional art form, that is, the art form most steeped in its own tradition. This is certainly true of "modern poetry" if you think of Pound, for example.
Hi Jonathan,
Thanks for stopping by.
Sorry if I stepped on your scholarly toes by using modern and contemporary interchangeably. I know they are not the same from the standpoint of classifying periods in literature.
I also know meter backwards and forwards (having done my junior seminar at Berkeley on the Sonnets) — as do the poets I keep around me. Nor do I think all twelve year olds can write well — but they can, in fact, string words into sentences, paragraphs, and pages.
My point is, from the outside, writing poetry seems more accessible than ever — in much the same way that modern art consisting of geometric shapes or dribbles of paint also seems accessible. By accessible in relation to writing I mean, "able to be done." By accessible in the act of reading, by contrast, I mean "able to be understood (not in a literal sense, as in "I understand your argument" — but able to convey its message in such a way that the intent of the message can be realized in the reader’s experience without the need for a PhD in the subject or a secret decoder ring). By communicate I mean, "impart the intended experience." Thanks for pointing out the opportunity to clarify.
Given my understanding of classical music, borrowed largely through my wife who spent two decades as a professional pianist, it seems to me classical music may have trumped poetry as a tradition well steeped in itself. In fact, partly for that reason, I often see many parallels.
Thanks for stopping by.
Sorry if I stepped on your scholarly toes by using modern and contemporary interchangeably. I know they are not the same from the standpoint of classifying periods in literature.
I also know meter backwards and forwards (having done my junior seminar at Berkeley on the Sonnets) — as do the poets I keep around me. Nor do I think all twelve year olds can write well — but they can, in fact, string words into sentences, paragraphs, and pages.
My point is, from the outside, writing poetry seems more accessible than ever — in much the same way that modern art consisting of geometric shapes or dribbles of paint also seems accessible. By accessible in relation to writing I mean, "able to be done." By accessible in the act of reading, by contrast, I mean "able to be understood (not in a literal sense, as in "I understand your argument" — but able to convey its message in such a way that the intent of the message can be realized in the reader’s experience without the need for a PhD in the subject or a secret decoder ring). By communicate I mean, "impart the intended experience." Thanks for pointing out the opportunity to clarify.
Given my understanding of classical music, borrowed largely through my wife who spent two decades as a professional pianist, it seems to me classical music may have trumped poetry as a tradition well steeped in itself. In fact, partly for that reason, I often see many parallels.
It’s not my "academic toes" you stepped on, but your own stated concern for "precision." When you complained that poets said that they couldn’t write prose, you implied precision in language was a prerequisite. Yet you mangle the language yourself with "proliferance," and can’t distinguish between "canvas" and "canvass." By your own logic you should first learn precision in prose before you attempt poetry. Do you even realize you wrote defending "accesbiility" and then offered reasons why accesssibility is undesirable?
Yes, John. That was the point. See the title: it is not "a defense of accessibility." Sorry if my typos pissed you off. I get a bit fast, loose, and lenient in the blogosphere.
p.s. Typos corrected. I guess next time I could reenlist my wife, the proofreading ninja.


